Monday, December 10, 2012

Randomization: January 2013 Official Restricted List Thoughts

To those that are concerned about the banlist, here's something for you to read, and stop being childish and ranting, complaining and making a big fuss about the banlist (for those that think this post is offensive, please ignore)

To all the players out there, if you really think this banlist is going to make you quit Vanguard, by all means, go ahead please. If you don't really understand the logic behind the bannings and restrictions and just keep on complaining, why don't you all just move ahead and find another game to play?

The reason that they restrict all these cards is very easy, one word: SPAM. Didn't you guys notice that all major JP format tournaments' winners are from OTT, Kagero and RP? Well, I'll ask you this: If your favorite clan has near to zero chance of winning any top tier tournaments, will you still have confidence in it? It's to balance up the metagame by preventing overspamming of these clans in the tournament. It's to give other clans a chance to try to take the to spot of the meta.

And you might wanna say: why not ban Ezel, why not ban Maelstrom, why not ban Vermilion? For god's sake, they are not even considered a meta clan yet. If they are meta enough, they would have been replaced OTT, Kagero and RP eons ago.

In a sense, it might look like that those clans are 'dead', but it's not. Yes, you lose one archetype, but you still have others to play with. Use your brains, and start being innovative, this is not the end of the world.

In short, the new banlist is just to put your deckbuilding skills to the test and to provide a better environment, not for you to complain and whine. So, go back and think properly, and if you're thinking detailed enough, then you'll know the ban list is for the sake of the majority, not for you all power whores and metards.


I'll just make this really short, lazy to explain the whole thing in detail. If you guys needed any further clarification or explanation about why each of these cards are in the list, feel free to drop me a message and I'll discuss it with you. That's all for now, Homura signing out.

35 comments:

  1. Finally Bushiroad did something about the spamming.. Ban for RP and OTT is fine.. But dote totally crippled from the ban.. Why SP not affected too? With RP OTT and kagero nerfed SP will be the next big thing..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies

    1. Alfred Beat is still playable, albeit needing modification to work. Oracle Think Tank will still be a power, weakened but more than viable. Gold Paladin will be one the main powerhouses to fill the gap with it's many variants giving it multiple options.

      Delete
  2. Alfred Beat is still okay, but it lacks the awesomeness of Wingal Brave. Garmall might be the next best thing


    Problem is, no one's going back to Garmall if all Kagero players go back to Goku /gg Snowgal

    Tsukuyomi is one pain is the ***, even though Coco has been getting her fair share of the spotlight, nothing beats Tsukuyomi's stack and the ability to give Silent Tome Crit after Crit after Crit.


    It's a step in the right direction, but Bushiroad really needs to replace or create better cards for the clans, ie. New Starter for Kagero

    ReplyDelete
    Replies

    1. I expect BT10 to be the new BT01 and give support to Royals/Kagero/OTT and minor support to Nova's so Kagero's replacement starter will be there if anything. I wouldn't get any hopes up for any more than a Top-5 G3 searcher though.

      Delete
  3. 1 Goddess of the Full Moon, Tsukuyomi in a Tsukuyomi deck is simply too ridiculous and what's more, no silent tom in the deck? You may as well ban Tsukuyomi decks from tournaments already. Silent tom has always been a critical card in any OTT deck, especially Tsukuyomi since they didn't get any support for a long time already. I don't see that many players using Tsukuyomi decks in tournaments now also.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dude, Full Moon is restricted to 2 not 1. Silent Tom also is restricted to 2 not 1. I don't really see the problem with this, seeing as OTT is coming out with the crossride Amaterasu etc.

      Delete
    2. Dude...Do you know how the Restriction list works in Vanguard? You can have two of any number of cards on the restricted list. And guess what, Tsukuyomi's Starter is also on that list. So Assuming you wan the ride chain, you run 1 starter and one Full moon. That means no Toms. Hell, the anime made it a point that for how awesome Tsukuyomi is, it has a crippling weakness of inconsistency.

      Even if you pull off Tsukuyomi's ride chain, there are no Toms. That means, Tsukuyomi's main attack force is gone. And while it isn't impossible to win, the deck is more or less gambling entirely on Luck now.

      What makes this ban list particularly harsh for Tsukuyomi and The end is that it effectively kills them. It's not like Yu-gi-oh where they give you the chance to try modding the deck to find a crappier way of making the deck. These decks simply don't work. This is glaringly bad in Tsukuyomi's case because it has already been replaced by the Coco build in the tournament scene in JPn because it was more reliable. While hitting Tom is understandable, hitting Tsukuyomi this hard feels like a cheap gimmick to force these players to just buy new decks.

      Delete
  4. Any idea on how to build Polaris build?

    ReplyDelete
  5. This is becoming like Yugioh. You print a card then you BAN it. Why ban only in the Japanese meta? ANSWER: Plain and simple. For the English meta, buy the cards first, we make money then we will ban. Exactly the same as Yugioh.

    Being broken is not at all bad. A broken card would attract players to buy cards and play. If the meta is not broken, the game is not exciting, boring, and therefore you have less players. I played Yugioh, Magic, VS, and now Vanguard; and this is what I observed.

    Magic has far more broken cards than these and its still in the meta. Broken is good. Remember that!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the restrictions were not because of "broken" cards it was because the vast majority of the players only run those specific decks

      Delete
    2. ...isn't this the case in almost all card games? People run the meta deck because they hate losing too much.

      Delete
  6. We need to start a movement.

    As I'm sure everyone is aware at this point, Bushiroad has recently announced a list of cards that will be restricted to two per deck for the Japanese meta starting January 2013. Any deck may not include more than two cards from the entire list, which includes highly anticipated cards such as Majesty Lord Blaster, Wingal Brave, and Dragonic Overlord The End. It also includes current English favorites such as King of Knights, Alfred, Goddess of the Full Moon, Tsukuyomi, and Silent Tom.

    This action has occurred as a result of decks including these cards being a dominant force in the Japanese meta, and Bushiroad aims to balance the game by restricting these cards. However, this restriction will render these decks completely unplayable in a consistent manner.

    While this action has currently only been taken for the Japanese version of the game, we should expect this same action to affect the English version when BT09 is released. This is the same situation that occurred when Bushiroad stated that Barcgal would not be restricted for the English version, and then decided to restrict it upon the release of BT03, just as they did in Japan. This kind of restriction sets the standard for future restrictions, and diminishes the health of the game.

    Bushiroad continues to release crossrides and other mechanics that allow the player to gain advantage. The dominance of Gold Paladin in the English meta is a good example of this, as well as the crossride printed for Blond Ezel in BT09. This is the proper method of sufficiently balancing the game, and it will allow for the game to continue to grow. The solution is to continue to print new cards that implement strategies that can overcome decks like Majesty Lord Blaster and Dragonic Overlord The End, rather than to limit these decks to the point that they are no longer playable.

    As players, it's up to us to make our voices heard. Bushiroad seems to try to do what's right for the players. Let's let them know that this is not the path that we want to see our game follow.

    Please sign our petition. Share it with your friends, your playgroup, your local shops and your tournament organizers. Include it in your forum signatures. Let's work together to keep Cardfight!! Vanguard healthy and fun.

    The petition is located here:
    https://www.change.org/petitions/bushiroad-cardfight-vanguard-reverse-the-two-per-deck-restriction-implementing-in-japan-jan-2013#share

    When signing the petition, you'll receive a single confirmation email that will allow you to share the petition with others. Let's spread the word.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I seriously don't think that printing even better cards or cards that can stand on the same ground as Majesty Lord Blaster or Dragonic Overlord The End will do anything to create a healthy metagame. It'll be almost the same as the current Yu-Gi-Oh where its your derp deck vs my derp deck and lets see who pulls off the derp moves first. These decks are played because of their popularity. They sound cool, look cool, etc. Its come to the point where almost everybody's playing ONLY the Big 3.

      Delete
  7. Comparing to magic is wrong too.. Unlike magic, vanguard only have one format for tournament but magic have vintage, legacy, cube, extended, standard and many many other format.. So restricting is good for now since it's only 9 booster and in the future separate into multiple format like magic did. If they continue to create more and more over power card just to overpower the previous overpower cards sooner or later the game cripple just like yugioh. If I'm not wrong Bushiroad is trying to introduce more and more format into the game like draft and tag battle.. As more and more booster is out more format might be introduced into the game with their own rule and restriction card list.. That is the only way to keep the game healthy. As for eng player I don't see how the restriction list effect them but infact I think it benefit those eng player since they know what card will be restricted they can don't purchase too many of them and thus they save money compared to us player playing the jap cards..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "So restricting is good for now since it's only 9 booster" Is this a joke? Do you know what you are talking about?

      Delete
    2. Ofcause I am.. It's better to restrict now then later when even more cards get created and circulated worldwide and metagame gets hard to control cause all the game ends up unless you are rich to buy the current overpower card or you will forever lose. Vanguard or should I say all card game is suppose to be about fun and skill.. not who is richer to buy the most overpowered card.

      Delete
    3. This is the sad story my friend. A poor kid trying to save money to buy a Kagero or an OTT deck. Dreaming everyday of playing the real thing. Then, the boy was able to buy the deck after several months of not eating his lunch money. Ahhhaaaaaa now I got the DOTE Kagero, I am so happy ---- oooooooppps Bushiroad messes up everything, banned DOTE.

      The poor boy cried. All of his money down to the toilet.

      What rich people are you talking about. The rich will not be affected by the ban because all they have to do is to buy another deck. HOW ABOUT THE POOR BOY?

      In my meta, we play because its broken. If it aint broken, it sucks.

      Delete
    4. There's so many option here:
      1) sell the extra dote
      2) sell the whole deck
      3) trade the whole deck for another deck
      4) use another deck to join tournament
      5) keep the deck as collection and only use it to join special upcoming tournament by Bushiroad in march where all restriction are lifted just for that tournament
      6) quit vanguard and stop wailing like a baby

      You want broken game then any tcg under Bushiroad is not suitable for you. Go back to yugioh, dual master, and etc. Bushiroad encourage fair play and healthy game where everyone no matter what deck they use even a trial deck will stand a chance to win.

      Delete
    5. You know what, you are a businessman not a card gamer.

      Delete
    6. I am both. I played all sorts of card game, Pokemon wwe mtg WS and etc. I know what is good for the game and what is not. Your phase of crybaby just because of your fav card get restricted where you spend lots of money and time on it, I been thru tons of it. And mind you, it's RESTRICTED not even ban. It for formal tournament only and not for both formal and informal. Just because of such a small move by Bushiroad you all coming up with petition. Quit please. You are not suitable for playing card game,

      Delete
    7. You speak like a genius my friend. As if you possess the monopoly of knowledge, opinion and skill. I have played since Magic was born, Yugioh, VS, and now Vanguard just to let you know. I play professionally. Its my passion.

      Are you working for Bushiroad? How much my friend?

      Delete
  8. Just a little 2 cents.

    Everyone realizes that this rule would only be applied to official and 'official' tournaments, meaning that if you want to play a DOTE deck just because you actually like DOTE, then by all means you can go ahead and play DOTE with friends because once again, no one is stopping you if you want to play the deck. Actually, this may actually make it easier for casual players to gain access in general by the lowering the prices of such cards which might be expected as a result of this..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. YEAH! Finally a understanding person! Unlike those people who just want to jack up card prices for profit and wailing like a baby when they going to make a loss! A card game is about interaction with other players and have fun, not about broken and unhealthy game and profit only. Play until so sad then quit la. Vanguard less player like them will be so much more friendly and fun.

      Delete
    2. Question is "who is that stupid guy who would want to play with you with three DOTE when everybody knows about the banlist?"

      It sounds like I will play my CED Yata Garasu deck with your basic banlist compliant Zombie deck; or I will use my Reannimator Legacy with your Standard mono white.

      This is not a make believe thing. When you play cards you play within the rules even casual play.

      Delete
  9. LOL u guys are acting like it's outright banned, as in "NO MORE DOTE/Tsuku/MLB for you!" Kind of banned. It's not. It's restricted. Frankly, seeing mirror matches everywhere gets crappy after a while, so I think this could be a breath of fresh air in disguise, perhaps we'd even see cards that people didn't even care about before winning games in spectacular ways. I mean, it's all about the game, and in Vanguard, the possibilities of winning are endless, if you know how to craft your deck properly.
    Now more than ever, DOTE players should step up to the plate and show that, even when DOTE is restricted, it should be feared. Do that, and you'll prove you have skill. Just my opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  10. well , this restriction list is somehow , I don't like it ... because if those card is restricted , only Gold Paladin that conquer the meta ... I hoping at least 2 more broken clan other gold paladin ... then , they may restrict those card ... I shall not angry about this ... but , with this only 1 clan will always be the top 3 ... I'm hoping to bushiroad to postpone this Restriction List until they found 2 more clan ...
    because it will be boring to see only 1 clan topped ... it's like Yu-Gi-Oh when Tele-DAD format where you don't use Tele-DAD you will not win ... :(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In 14 years of experience in playing TCG, there is no card game that I played that there is no dominant deck. There is always that dominant deck all the time. I played Yugioh (CED Yata), Magic (UB Faeries, UW Jace, Valakut Ramp), VS (Curve Sentinel - Bastion Overload combo).

      Now, DOTE in Vanguard. Later SDD. Later, Ezel. Later, Vermillion, etc etc.

      This is a never ending thing. Its basically a way of earning money. Business as usual.

      Delete
    2. So, the thing that they are saying that there should be a balanace meta is full of crap. There is no such thing as balance meta. Its a myth.

      Delete
  11. Yawns!~ let's let the dogs continue to bark while the rest of us accept to adapt to the changes and have fun shall we?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Wow! So many crybabies!

    ReplyDelete
  13. I really feel that this is important for a change, but I wish that there would be a reduction in the amount of damage chance can do to a perfectly working deck strategy.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Looks like I'm really late to the argument. But I might as well tell you the purpose of the banlist: money.

    Kagero, Royal Paladin, and OTT reigned the competitive scene for a really long time. Set 5 introduced Crossrides to the metagame and completely messed everything up by screwing with the Vanguard magic numbers. Cardfight Vanguard is a game initally built around the number 10,000 for Vanguards and 5000 intervals for shielding. 11,000 Power vanguards were valuable because they switched the magic numbers from 15,000 and 20,000 to 16,000 and 21,000.

    Why didn't people complain then? Because those numbers were still easily manageable. A simple 9k grade 2 and any 7k booster hits for the 16K mark. So yes, the new numbers for 11k Vanguards did not hurt the game because it was still manageable.

    And then the crossrides come in with 13K Power and both turns. Whoa. Suddenly the numbers get jacked up to 18,000 and 23,000. For most decks, that became very hard to accomplish. Outside of a vanilla rearguard line, getting 18k consistently was a problem. Often times, including the vanillas would only lead to ruining a deck's image. Decks like granblue, megacolony, and dimension police, among others, simply could not keep up. For most decks, hitting for 18k was very difficult. And let's not even talk about getting to 23k without relying on triggers.

    This meant that in any game, crossrides could guard for less and not waste precious triggers on rearguard attacks because they weren't hitting good numbers. Anyone who plays Vanguard (or any TCG) knows the power of hand/card advantage. Crossrides had much more breathing room.

    What was the original counter to this? Limit Break. The powerful effects that activated at 4 or more damage were created in an attempt to persuade people to use other clans. And many limit breaks are indeed powerful, such as Ezel, Garmore, Cocytus, Vermillion...but they weren't strong enough.
    Sure, the Vanguard column was made powerful by Limit Break. But the rearguard lines were still left unfixed. And what's the point of a powerful vanguard? Most times, Vanguards get perfect guarded during the late game anyway. The crossrides just kept marching on.

    For 3 sets, nothing could stop their tremendous strength. Until set 9, when the brand new crossrides were coming out. Ah. Ban list time.

    Why stop the royal paladin blaster ride and the Kagero crossride when the new crossrides are coming out? Won't the new crossrides be able to stand up to the older ones? Isn't that the point of making them?

    No. The point of the new cross rides isn't for fighting the older ones. Otherwise, their skills would be more powerful and wouldn't be Limit Break 5. The new cross rides were created to influence players to use them once the older ones got restricted.

    What does this all mean? Money. The ban list here is entirely money-based. Whether that is a bad thing or a good thing is all the player's choice. Either way, there's not much one can do about it. Bushiroad needs people to buy new cards. At the very least, at least the meta will now be dominated by a new wave of crossriders.

    ReplyDelete